Skip to content
May 5, 2010 / P. Filippaios

Greek riots: The end that is coming near to us

I’m sorry for the non-linux related post, but I wanted this to stay in my blog’s history…

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8661385.stm

One of the greatest, and major and unfair decisions ever made by our governments led to one great strike and deaths.

Advertisements

18 Comments

  1. karol / May 5 2010 6:20 pm

    I don’t mind you posting here as I was about to ask you to anyway.

  2. Majki-Fajki / May 5 2010 6:43 pm

    That’s how socialism dies.

    • karol / May 5 2010 6:49 pm

      Do you mean that well-meaning zombie always ending up knee-deep in some poor people’s blood and guts?
      I don’t think you can really kill it. Besides, some folks would like to keep it around as a pet.

      • Majki-Fajki / May 5 2010 6:57 pm

        All I mean is Greece is a socialist country with socialist economy. That system always die painfully. I wonder who’s next – Spain, Portugal, Italy or Irleand?

        In fact, Greeks got what they wanted. You want welfare state? Don’t like to work? You agree to debt-state with zylions of bureaucrats. Brutal truth.

        When money run out, everybody suffer. The saddest part is that people’s pensions are cut down. This means, that it’s doesn’t matter how much you pay, becouse your taxes are used to pay present pensions. For your pension… well somebody will lend us money (that you’ll have to pay).

      • george / May 5 2010 8:27 pm

        Greece is not and has never been a socialist country. Perhaps you may want to look up socialism in wikipedia.
        Also public spending has been dominated by the military budget a result of the political situation with Turkey that ultimately benefits the suppliers of the equipment which are predominantely USA, Germany and France. The Olympic games did not help either since almost nothing of their cost has remained as infrastructure in the country. Naming the welfare state for the collpase is outright hypocritical.
        As far as the oversized public sector that has been the result of the mentality of greeks who sought to be hired as public workers and the corrupt politicians that accomodated such practices. But to be fair that kind of “public welfare” corruption is dwarfed by the good old western type corruption in favor of big economic institutions that wasted billions of euros from the EU that were supposed to build the economic infrastucture of the country.
        For all these the majority of the people are not responsible. Yet they are asked to pay the bill by the ones that are truly and criminaly responsible, that is the politicians and the businessmen that they accomodated.
        The reality in economic terms in Greece will be that a newly employed person will have to work for 550 euro per month, no matter how well educated or skilled he/she is. The reality will be that most will not have a steady job but will work acording to the needs of the employer and if that doesn’t make the rent, well too bad…
        The protests were against that reality and not the aftermath of another socialist collapse.

  3. flamelab / May 5 2010 8:00 pm

    The bigger problem is that Greece was dealing with financial problems that were too great for it’s size. Having 300+ billion euros of debt and being such a small country with no resources for heavy industry.

    Entering the Eurozone, Greece could take loans easier, that means, if they could handle it, we could accelerate our growth.

    And it backfired.

    • karol / May 5 2010 8:08 pm

      > And it backfired.
      Seems like the world is fueled by just two emotions: greed and fear. When the market is going up you want to earn more than your neighbor, when it’s going down you fear you’ll lose everything.
      It’s true that playing safe can sometimes be risky, but often saying “enough” at the right time means you’ll be alright when the sh*t hits the fan.

    • Majki-Fajki / May 5 2010 8:28 pm

      @flamelab

      Well, if you belive, that government is for economic growth watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un4-eI1T71E

      I’m from Poland, and I know, that the same fate is coming towards Poland soon.

      • flamelab / May 5 2010 8:31 pm

        I don’t believe that we have “actual” growth with non-existent money. That’s why we have trouble right now.

        And you mentioned that we are a socialist country. That’s not true… The party that is the government right now is so called “socialist”, but it’s far from the actual socialist (leftist) idea.

      • karol / May 5 2010 9:02 pm

        @Majki-Fajki
        I don’t think that our economy will collapse.
        Even if – hey, I know English, I like washing dishes … πŸ˜‰

        As for Greece: bailout money will jumpstart the economy and couple years down the road nobody will remember the riots, everyone will live happily ever after.
        Amen.

  4. flamelab / May 5 2010 9:17 pm

    @karol:

    “As for Greece: bailout money will jumpstart the economy and couple years down the road nobody will remember the riots, everyone will live happily ever after.
    Amen.”

    That’s not really going to happen. Most of the people from now on will have GREAT cuts on their monthly wages, both on private and public sector.

    The pensions will be severelly cut now (2010) and much more in 2018, because of the black hole that will be created.

    And that would not be so apparent IF the prices of the products in the market would decrease. Well, that’s not happening. The public electricity company here in Greece is announcing an INCREASE for the montly bills after the next month.

    • karol / May 5 2010 9:59 pm

      If I can employ you for 550 euros, I’m more likely to, because you are much cheaper than the German employees – if your work is of the same quality as the German guys that is. That may mean you will have a job and the German guy won’t.
      In a capitalistic society you will be willing to work really hard to get a job, because there are no/little unemployment benefits etc. In a welfare state you might get a decent amount of “pocket money” for a long time.

      And how do you know that the private sector is going to cut wages? I would prefer to keep them as the are but hire better people – those who are not willing to work in a cushy public sector job for peanuts.
      That may mean that smart people will leave the public sector and those who stay are not suited to govern in lean times – *that’s* your problem.

      > And that would not be so apparent IF the prices
      > of the products in the market would decrease.
      LMAO! So, you want to earn a lot, but you expect other people will be happy with a meager wage? They too want to earn more, so they will demand more money for their products/services. This _can_ fuel inflation and now you’re really screwed, because inflation is like yet another tax: your money is worth less and less every month.

      @george
      You call it corruption, I call it greed – unsound policies invoked as means of “progress”. Whether those in charge were bribed to do so is another matter.

      It’s a good time to ask yourself how would you behave if you came on top. What if Greece would have outpaced Germany, France and GB and become a bustling modern economy? Would you care for less fortunate or call them stupid/lazy?

      • Majki-Fajki / May 5 2010 11:20 pm

        Well

        As far as I can see, not to many people read books written by Friedman or Hayek:)

        Scenario for Greece is simple. Bankruptcy.
        If so many people work in a public sector, they take a first hit.

        Private won’t be good either.
        a) Many people in public sector loose their jobs/resign to find one in private sector -> more people will compete for the same jobs -> lesser wages.
        Supply/demand principle.
        b) High taxation will kill a piece of private sector -> lesser number of employers -> lesser competition -> lesser wages

        AND

        Stupid Greeks are taking a cut-throat loan from EU mobsters, they will have to pay it back. I.e. german people will protest, if Greece won’t do so (their taxmoney are being loaned).

        So high taxation.

        I don’t feel pity for Greeks – they deserve that – they did not stopped their own government from ruing their country. I’m afraid of Poland, because we’re stupid also – our government is also left-winged and it’s borrowing monwy constantly ON OUR ACCOUNT.

        I afraid political consequences also. What Greek government will do not only with protesters, but with bloggers, journalists, etc?

        Oh -and hyper inflation possibility. 130 billion euro coming into monetary system out of thin air – infaction is for sure. And when that start, Greeks will burn their parliment.

  5. karol / May 5 2010 11:46 pm

    @Majki-Fajki
    Greece is in Europe, not on Mars. You can bring your own money there to get higher ROI than in Germany.

    Poland had it’s hyperinflation ride several years ago and we’re still alive.

    Private sector will change but won’t be wiped out: less luxury cars and more discount stores, because people will have less money (wage cuts/freeze) but they still have to eat.
    Higher taxation of alcohol to curb rising alcohol consumption and get more tax money is a risky thing in Poland, I don’t know how inventive are Greeks wrt home-distiled beverages & smuggling πŸ™‚

    > Oh -and hyper inflation possibility. 130 billion
    > euro coming into monetary system out of thin air –
    > infaction is for sure. And when that start, Greeks
    > will burn their parliment.
    Qui bono? I’m not interested in Greek politics, but surely sb will benefit from radical populist movements.

    Greece is not Poland, 2010 is not 1990. Greece will receive the money over a period of three years, so the aid will amount to about 15% of GDP, which in my book means inflation, not hyperinflation.

    Time will tell who was right, Majki-Fajki πŸ™‚

    • Majki-Fajki / May 6 2010 12:01 am

      Time will tell who was right, Majki-Fajki

      Well, no πŸ™‚ I’m not an economist per se, but some basic right always work.

      Greece is not Poland, 2010 is not 1990. Greece will receive the money over a period of three years, so the aid will amount to about 15% of GDP, which in my book means inflation, not hyperinflation.

      Well, don’t forget about other countries (specially Spain – 20% unemployment rate!). They will also need “support”.

      I don’t know how inventive are Greeks wrt home-distiled beverages & smuggling
      Smuggling applies to every nation:)

  6. flamelab / May 5 2010 11:52 pm

    @Karol:

    “LMAO! So, you want to earn a lot, but you expect other people will be happy with a meager wage? They too want to earn more, so they will demand more money for their products/services. This _can_ fuel inflation and now you’re really screwed, because inflation is like yet another tax: your money is worth less and less every month.”

    I don’t expect to earn a lot. I expect a decrease in prices. The prices in most things (and services_ here in Greece is very high, and -now- too high for us.

    • Majki-Fajki / May 6 2010 12:03 am

      You can expect whatever you want, but inflation + taxation = higher prices.

      • flamelab / May 6 2010 12:05 am

        That means that we are doomed.

        And the problem is that the other European countries think that we deserve that.

        [sorry for closing the comments, but I wasn’t intending to make the blog from tech related to political.]

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: